The contractor wasn't sure if we had the recalled batch installed in our house or not. How would you know? When spray foam goes bad … Are there any considerations we should know about? Following the corona-virus outbreak in the UK, Evergreen Power UK Ltd have been closely monitoring the UK government advice. (I'm not going to dive into the energy code here, but these numbers apply to many climate zones, the latter being allowed under the UA tradeoffs rule. They then reinstalled too thick again in some spots and removed again. We were asked to remove foam from a number of attic spaces, I went down price the job and was surprised at how thick and thin it was in parts, some parts pulled away with no problem, others parts were stubborn and in all areas left crumbs of it stuck to the rafters. In this case, permanency cuts both ways. exposed roof deck, and am also concerned about the air pockets/gaps that exist behind every baffle. any ideas, Thanks for quick reply, Im also curious about a couple more things, how important is foil faced vs non, pink corning board vs dow blue? Subscribe to our blog! I don't know the details, but I've heard it could result from a bad batch of chemicals, improper mixing, or too high a temperature. Thanks Rick. Brenda: It's possible the foam was pulling loose from the studs but only because the framing lumber was shrinking in the cold weather. Do we trust him, however, to be truthful about the batch number? In fact, that was my first line in the article. Here in Texas, heat and humidity (except for the past few years of drought) are a continuing problem. They're starting this Monday, April 30th, so a quick reply would be greatly appreciated. In the wall that I have open the sheet fall out as soon as they are uncovered. I think you meant this article: http://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/blogs/dept/musings/cut-and-cobble-in... Jim S.: Yes, indeed I did mean that article. We live in the Northeast and having trouble finding out if spraying closed cell poly foam in the crawlspace under our bedroom floor is a health benefit or health hazard. It follows the prerequisites for a Class 0 surface, as mentioned in Paragraph A12(b) of Approved Document B 'Fire Safety,' to the Building Regulations 200. Some say the foam will act as a barrier from bad air in the crawl space (we already have an ezbreath 'air exchange' unit and plastic vapor barrier on the crawl space floor to help reduce basement and crawlspace humidity) Others (my law friends who work for NYC) say poly foam is not healthy to have under your room where you sleep. As the last photo above shows, it had pulled away significantly from the studs and rafters, and it was all over the house. I'm very glad we didn't use the other foam as even that much outgassing of a petrochemical could have sent my wife to the hospital. Spray foam contracts and pulls away from framing. Her attic spaces were sprayed and the foam is actually pretty, and I was in her attic 6-7 days after it was sprayed and could hardly smell anything when I stuck my face up to the foam. Good article Allison. What do you mean by "our AC units require fresh air ventilation"? Stop! I didn't try to hide that and even used the word 'installer' in two of the four headings. Icynene spray foam insulation is a superior air barrier and breathable insulation in one. Jennifer, I'm not an expert on the health effects of closed cell foam. The prices are 10 x time to high. We are Icynene accredited contractors, and you can take advantage of our free site survey service to get an experienced surveyor to come and inspect your site. Can cement block crawl space walls be sprayed with foam insulation? I have closed cell spray insulation sprayed on my attic roof, soffits for a closed system. Tim. My mother did here's but we are conserding not doing ours. Bad Spray Foam Insulation. Foam is the worst buy ever. Another problem I've seen is that the installer sprays extra foam because they haven't identified the location of the building envelope, the boundary between conditioned and unconditioned space. We are considering using 2 pound foam, however it will be very difficult to remove the old foam. 2) If my spray company refuses to rectify the problem, will getting a building inspector help? My sister used spray foam, and her house house is ruined. You've got no argument from me there, Dennis. This is mainly based on older insulation methods, such as Polyurethane, and modern insulation alternatives, such as Icynene, offer an economical and air quality improving alternative. Sandi. It's not foolproof to install, and its R-value per inch is pretty much the same as open cell spray foam - when it's installed correctly, which is almost never. How Safe Is Spray Foam Insulation? The popularity of spray foam insulation has steadily increased in recent years. I'm already a big fan of open cell foam and think it's better for most applications in our mixed-humid climate than closed cell, but next time I'm in the Bay Area, I'll certainly let you know and would love to see your work. Spray foam installers didn't understand the building envelope and sprayed either too little or too much. I would like to use both. Has a measure of safety around high-pressure spray equipment. They sprayed over the ceiling line to about 2 ft into the attic over some plastic panels. About choosing the right foam, I intentionally avoided the open cell vs. closed cell foam debate. This method is proven to be Eco friendly, less expensive, keep your house out of danger! In complex houses, seeing exactly where the building envelope is can be a challenge. There are also homes that have been ruined by bad … I've seen a number of houses with problems even though they're insulated with spray foam. We are turning our roof into an unvented roof assembly by raising the roof and blowing in SPF. I have spent many hours in the house looking at what is bad and they need to fix. the other thing is it is pier and beam. We noticed recently that some of the foam was shrinking and seperating from the floor joists. Framing is a significant bridge for significant surface area. The problem was that the installers missed some areas at the soffit in the attic above the master bedroom, and gaps around the tray ceiling allowed the humid air into the room, where it naturally found the cold surface to condense on. If your ever in Northern CA. One of the early contractors installed cardboard roof baffles to protect the soffit vents from traditional insulation. Sensitization … Even better, you can test for leaks with a fog machine. It sounds like you are saying that the systems need to be vented out of the attic or replaced with some type of closed system. When I arrived, they took me to the master suite, where two towels were on the floor - to catch the rain falling off of the supply registers in the ceiling! We have 1/2 pound insulation on the exterior walls of the cottage crawl space. They've also installed an outside air ventilation that runs for 20 minutes every single hour, but my inside humidity is >40% all the time regardless what temperature it is in the house. Thanks! Just some old R19 fiberglass in the attic and the around the pipes in the crawlspace. Installing spray foam insulation will pay for itself by lowering your energy bills every month. Thanks for your help. Regarding time of separation, I don't recall how long it took on the house where I saw it, but I think it happens fairly quickly, as in hours. Since closed cell foam has a higher R-value per inch, installers generally spray 2" in walls and 3" in rooflines to meet the energy code requirements of R-13 and R-19, respectively. Don't ever touch it. Icynene spray foam can also help reduce sound from noisy indoor rooms, outdoor noises and transferred noises. I agree with you that foam is a great product. Thanks... once the foam is installed correctly, it is a inert plastic not much different than the foam cushions you sit on. In the crawl space it looks like baby powder. He tells me this is normal and that I need to put towels down to soak up water and deal with it. A lot of people live in houses with closed cell foam and have no health problems from it, at least not short-term, acute problems. We would first like to state that not all insulation materials are the same; with Icynene being new to the market, it is regularly misunderstood and compared with other related materials like Polyurethane (which is where most of the spray insulation nightmares you’ve heard about come from). Around ten years ago, individuals related Polyurethane Spray Foam Insulation as an obscure, untested type of home insulation, which could be a risk to mortgage holders of the property. Another guy I know who used to spray foam told me about the importance of having the foam at the correct temperature, too. Poor application of the spray foam insulation – The poor application of spray foam insulation by an untrained or unlicensed contractor can lead to several problems, according to Fine Home Building. The installer wasn't reading his foam correctly. Our home is a 1950's ranch sans wall insulation. The areas that I thought were good are now separating from the structural members leaving voids. I'm sure things like that happen; I just haven't seen it yet. Yes, these are mainly installer issues, but as I said to Dennis, you can't separate spray foam insulation from its installation. Desperately awaiting your response. It was a 2 day job for 1 days pay, then we had to take it all out bagged. Peter, sorry for the delay in responding to your comment. We here popping sounds frequently in the cold.Thanks, Posted February 28 2014 and didn't check the box. © Evergreen Power UK 2017. He covers this technique, and there's a lot more info in the comments. We are building a house with a sealed spray foam attic. Since spray foam is both insulation and air barrier, proper alignment of insulation and air barrier is guaranteed. If you are going to spend the extra money for this great product and service, you deserve a great job done right! I've heard that foam insulation blown into walls breaks down after some time into dust. Yes, you're right that all of the problems mentioned above are related to the installer. Also installers have to be aware that as the sun rises and the temp in attics rises the subtrates get hotter as well. What's not guaranteed, however, is that all spray foam homes will be efficient and comfortable. the foam is absolutely a health risk in its raw forms before it is mixed and cured. SPF insulation contains chemicals called isocyanates that can cause skin and lung sensitization as well as irritation to the skin and mucous membranes like the eyes. Icynene now has a closed cell foam that doesn't have Freon in it. The spray foam industry should be controlled and regulated by the same standards, testing and inspections that framing ,electrical and plumbing are. Would sprayfoam be enough to create that perfect seal? Your comment about fiberglass is incorrect, on both counts. Good article, but it seems like you can chalk up almost all of those problems to the experience level of whomever is spraying the foam. This was ensuring that it was at the perfect temperature which helped them maximize their yield (profit). I haven't seen the full report, but based on the summary he wrote on the Green Building Advisor website, I question the science. These leaks are … Many builders or homeowners don't know how to find one, however, and that's where third party inspections come in. If that's the case, you don't want spray foam on the roofline at all. I am building a recording studio and considering filling the inner to outer walls with spry in foam. This means that all venting (soffit, ridge, gable or any other venting) must be removed or completely covered. Should this be done before or after the osb? Don't do it! What temp' is too cold to be using sprayfoam? Which type of foam would be the best to use in our home, where should the vapor barrier be or should be use one at all, if we are using fans in the exterior walls to supply fresh air to the house, do we need a vented attic or will it cause more problems than it solve? Use blown in cellulose. With open cell if it draws away it means it is to hot as well,you can dial the temp back and you are making good foam again. His plan is to not cover the soffet vents, but I want to know if that will decrease the efficiency of the foam. Every part of the building envelope must be insulated, or the home will have excess heat loss/gain. As with any product, though, spray foam insulation can be done correctly and it can be done poorly. Thanks. Spray Foam Insulation – Icynene Contractor. what does it mean when your closed cell insulation goes from cream to a dark cclor? Still smelled a little bad but that's gone away over time. Seems to me I can't both minimize fumes AND increase cross-ventilation. A well-known website for home handypeople recently ran a post … Anything we need to know about? Each of the four problem areas you cover are directly attributable to the installer, not spray foam. He assured me everything would be the same, etc., etc., and I had no reason to believe anything had changed, but the sprayers who did my house later admitted they had never sprayed an attic before and I also found out that the foam used in my attic was from a different manufacturer. Any poly spray foam birth defects or other issues to be concerned with during pregnancy? Available in 34 countries in the world and Evergreen Power is one of the trusted and accredited contractors of this Canadian manufacturer in the United Kingdom. By using the website you agree with our use of cookies: Icynene Suspended Timber Floor Insulation, Icynene Closed Cell Spray Foam Insulation. The good news, though, is that spray foam's problems are generally less frequent and easier to overcome with proper planning and follow through. What does that mean? You can see my comments at the end of his article. The key is finding a contractor who knows how to do things right, which is admittedly a difficult thing to do because there are so many bad ones out there. It is not providing any insulation as drafts come up through the flooring, and the insulation is being eaten by critters. Should I put on an outside wrap which is typical of fg/vapour barrier construction, I hope also to be putting a layer of 1 inch foam on the outside to help insulate the studs. Here's the clickable link: Martin Holladay's article on cut-and-cobble insulation . You may well have condensation problems. The poor application of spray foam insulation by an … With a few cans of spray foam sealant and a short span of time, you can reduce your energy costs, make your home more comfortable and help keep out insects and small rodents. Do you think it was the foam popping loose from the studs? When the foam is cut and trimmed as it hardens dust can be generated that contains unreacted chemicals. It is a fixer upper. Are you able to share what you've learned about poly spray foam as it relates to health risks post application? The 3rd sprayer from yet another company, was also outraged because the company who did my attic had failed to vacuum up all of the old cellulose insulation, and he also noticed areas where the foam was shrinking or pulling away, and this was not even 5 weeks after the spraying. Is spray foam insulation dangerous or toxic, Is protected against skin contact with raw materials. Sick because this high-performance insulation has a big carbon footprint and proper installation is key to its performance. It can ruin your whole home investment.. Go natural. So yes, a nationally recognized certification process would be a boon to the good operators in this business. Should you find yourself in the Bay Area any time soon, please drop me a line, and I can take you to some high quality installations, as well as enlighten you on the merits of open cell foam. I currently have a blown in insulation that I would like to remove due to debris and rodent infestation. One recent post has attracted a lot of commentary: http://www.energycircle.com/blog/2010/06/28/saving-energy-bad-or-good-an... Good article. Spray foam insulation is a great product. Getting a good installer if you're going with spray foam is crucial. We are debating between the "encapulation" method or the spray foam method to repair this issue. Just like car spray painters, your licensed Icynene spray foam contractor wears a protective Tyvek suit, gloves and air mask to protect their regular clothing and skin. We specialise in insulation and heating solutions. Insulation Contractors Air Duct Cleaning Duct Cleaning. Also, even good installers have bad days, but if someone comes in behind them with a measuring probe and a Blower Door, there will be fewer sub-par foam jobs. Poor application of the spray foam insulation. There are plenty of case studies done at spray foam dot org's site. Allison, I would like to add one item to your list - make sure you use the right foam for the right area. The problem you saw with the closed cell foam pulling away like that is due to the heat of the foam was to hot. The majority I've worked with here in Bay Area have all held up to the highest scrutiny. This will require you to route out for electric, plumbing & other obstructions. until that happens then you will have idiots with spray rigs ruining peoples homes and ruining the market for honest foam contractors that know how to price a job fairly and complete it correctly. Before getting our home insulation done. Yes, Chris will make clear where the building envelope is in the plans he's developing for you. What Does the EPA Have to say about spray foam toxicity? They went back after they were done to any spots that pulled away too much and filled them with the touch up kit; they were looking for the top edge to roll just a little bit. Are there any Icynene hazards or dangers presented from spraying over electrical wiring? Not only is Icynene safe, with home energy bills soaring over the last few years, installing Icynene spray foam insulation has got benefits all year round, and can also save you up to* 50% on your energy bills. This year every time it rains I'm getting water bubles behind the primer paint on outside and the paint eventually peels off down to the bare metal?? It's been an on going nightmare. Hi all. Spray polyurethane foam (SPF) is a spray-applied plastic that can form a continuous insulation and air sealing barrier on walls, roofs, around corners, and on all contoured surfaces. Hope this info helps. We’ve probably sprayed foam in 2,000 homes by now. This past winter it got down to 22 below zero a couple nights. I would like to clean it out and switch to spray foam insulation. Unfortunately, your sister's home is not one of them. They then installed it for a 3rd time. If the wall is below grade or in contact with the ground, you'll want to use closed cell spray foam. ;~) Anyway, I do think the greenhouse gas issue is important and that climate change is a serious problem. Lisa, thanks for alerting me to Tom's article. Where as with Icynene spray foam insulation installed , you will notice a difference in your health. I believe another problem is going to trump climate change, however - peak oil. Ever wondered why your Evergreen Power Icynene spray foam contractor is dressed in a suit that can be referred to a ‘hazmat’ suit? I do know of one person who had it removed from her crawl space because she was convinced it caused her dog to get sick, but I know only what she told me. My builder used closed cell foam applied at about 1" thick then used blown insulation up to the underside of the sheet rock. If there is one thing I’ve learned, it’s this: Homeowners are concerned about the lingering spray foam … It is toxic and gasses off for over a year. Flat or Lumpy - How Would You Like Your Insulation? *Please note: The information in this section has been stated directly by the manufacturer, you can find the resource here. What happens when you have to redo or change something completely encased in foam? I mean built in 1942 NO insulation. I will most likely be doing my 2x4 exterior walls on the second floor from outside, upgrading the siding, replacing the backerboard with osb, so should I leave the old vapour barrier there, should I leave a gap btwn foam and inside drywall or a gap btwn foam and osb on outside. For example, when encapsulating an attic by foaming along roof rafters and decking, the entire attic must be sealed to bring the attic inside the thermal boundary. Hiring a professional that has worked with spray foam for years is the key here. I can see how you'd think that the title is misleading, but in the end you can't separate spray foam insulation from its installation. After researching this, Im curious about a method called poor mans sprayfoam where foamboard is cut to size between studs and sprayfoamed around the perimeter. Spray foam insulation provides an airtight seal that is difficult to break. Even adding just 1 inch of Tiger Foam to your home's insulation … Any thoughts? VERY cold winter. We've been writing about foaming & air sealing this week, too. - Homes insulated with Tiger Foam will start saving money the day you install your spray foam. Unfortunately, the spray crew didn't speak English(at least not to me) and were kinda lazy, so they ended up spraying over some can fixtures from the kitchen below that were not insulation-contact rated. Off-gassing spray foam and spray foam dust can be very dangerous. – The Truth Revealed (2019). … What do you think? It was actually curing out and making foam before it could adhere to the wood. It reduces dangers of respiratory distress as allergies, asthma and certain sensitivities can be caused by natural airborne irritants... by choosing loft spray foam insulation, your home will be sealed from a wide range of pollutants in the air and helps prevent the growth of mould. Then they also put in aluminum windows. The product is a solid plastic, formed by the chemical reaction … If you're really concerned about this, hire a company to test your air and tell you what you can do about it. This is a expense that i can only afford to do once. We reckoned say 2 hours tops, and it was harder and longer than we surmised. My wife and daughters are chemically sensitive, so I'm trying to figure out how to minimize the fumes coming into the house. And she did not have to clean up one speck of dust during or after the spraying. Bird Family Insulation has been installing spray foam insulation in retrofit (existing) homes around Atlanta for about 12 years now. Justin, Justin: that method works great, the catch is making sure you but all the sheets together nice & tight & get them held in place. Temps and conditions are constantly changing thru out the day. Want to install foam insulation on ceiling and walls of craw space. Would ventilation during installation help any or woud the retardant seal off the foam and help that way? Open cell foam usually fills the framing cavity completely, so it's easy to tell if the installer has sprayed enough. I'm having my attic sprayed next week, and the installer is concerned about completely sealing the attic, since our AC units require fresh air ventilation. Aside from the labour doing the job yourself, the cost seems comparable, is one better than the other? Some of the Icynene Spray Foam Insulation Advantages. The video below is from a house near Charleston, South Carolina that I visited recently, and you'll see that the homeowner in this case didn't get his money's worth. Borrowing from a window construction concept, Suppose I use two 1 or 1.5 inch thick foamboards sandwiched with a small airgap in btwn, with sprayfoam around the perimeter, would that sandwiched airgap have any insulating value in itself assuming my perimeter is sealed perfectly? There are hundreds of thousands of homes with spray foam insulation that work well. They removed what they told me was the bad insulation and in the process cut many electrical wires. There are hundreds of thousands of homes with spray foam insulation that work well. This will cause the installer to adjust his heat when installing the foam as the temp changes thru out the day. When spray foam goes bad, it’s hard not to feel a bit sick. Todd, nice to hear from you! Closed cell foam doesn't fill the cavity, so you've got to spot check in a bunch of places to make sure you don't get shorted. Spray Foam Insulation: The Essentials. Developed 31 years ago, Icynene has been the No.1 insulation in North America and has now taken the UK by storm. In addition, your house and its contents are made of lots of materials that affect your indoor air quality. Allison, the link to Martin's article was incomplete.. … I have printed out your article and the blogs to give to my contractors and architect, but I would really appreciate your comments on the products being used in my part of the US. We never took the job. Where as with Icynene spray foam insulation … It's not true anymore. OK, Peter, I finally went back and read Alex Wilson's article on what he perceives as a serious problem. Which would you recommend? If there's an atmospheric combustion appliance in the attic, such as an 80 AFUE furnace, then you shouldn't be encapsulating the attic anyway. Do your research. You’ll be glad knowing your investment will carry you years into the future and continue to deliver … They also offered to spray a fire-retardant on for >$600. The safety of all our customers is our top priority, therefore we have put various measures in place to ensure all the government guidelines are adhered to. The job done with this foam had been condemned and the property owners wanted it all taken out. They must be trained to do that as they spray. Don't let him leave the vents open. I am a Insulating contractor and spray both foams. Originally broadcast October 25, 2013Canadians are installing spray foam insulation in their homes in ever-expanding numbers. I loved Tom's article! I've just mentioned a couple of the multitude of screwups these folks committed but what's frustrating to me is that they were the top-rated firm on Angie's List for foam installation in this area. This is in great contrast to my friend's experience. N'T understand the building envelope and sprayed cellulose on top of the foam was such a the! That does n't cut it that open cell foam should not be in the comments vented... Have received lots of materials that affect your indoor air quality you get spray foam insulation and/or a closed foam. 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